Curse

Hugh Manatee · May 04, 2009, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Paragons and sins are overpowered in PVE and almost useless in PVP. Rits are used as runners if at all... Actually can you give me an example of rit nerf due to pvp? Excuse my lack of knowledge but I just do not get where you take your ideas from.

Communing. Stuff like [shelter] and [union] used to cast faster and be cheaper energy wise, making it way to easy to have a bunch of rits spamming defense and throwing a-rage around in HA(i remember rit spike, it sucked to fight). You'd have 8 rits or N/rts with like 4 shelters/unions between them, and other communing offense and defense. In PvE it was just barely workable with rit lord, it wasn't easy but in most areas you could keep communing defense going if you were good and maybe had a bip(this was before HM too), and the offense spirits were pretty decent turrets, but after they had to kill communing in PvP before the split, it just became useless. After the split they did fix Rit Lord, but the rest of the communing line is still untouched. The low level spirits don't have the health to keep up with the damage output of newer HM enemies, they die to fast and have far to long downtimes. The only remotely useful rit in PvE is channeling support with restoration party wide heals, or just straight channeling offense. [edit] I forgot, some people like spirits strength, but since I made my rit a mini-mule i dont have room for the weapons...

Now after the pvp/pve split they could make rit communing defense and offense viable in PvE, which was always weaker than monk prots and necro minions, without screwing up the balance against real players. Remember, even though they're predictable and dumb, pve mobs are about 4-10 levels stronger then you and attack faster.

phan · May 04, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Paragons and sins are overpowered in PVE and almost useless in PVP. Rits are used as runners if at all... Actually can you give me an example of rit nerf due to pvp? Excuse my lack of knowledge but I just do not get where you take your ideas from.

Spirits ; ar ; sw ; WoW ; add burning to spirits ; rit spike used to be strong like bear . etc

Chico · May 04, 2009, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Nothing done anymore because of GW2.

Artisan Archer · May 04, 2009, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico

Nothing done anymore because of GW2.

I was waiting for this post. I think we got a record with 3 pages btw.

Buster · May 04, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

What more you want them to do with the skills. The skills have been beaten, torn, twisted, stomped on, and body slammed a million times over the past 4 years.

draxynnic · May 05, 2009, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Paragons and sins are overpowered in PVE and almost useless in PVP. Rits are used as runners if at all... Actually can you give me an example of rit nerf due to pvp? Excuse my lack of knowledge but I just do not get where you take your ideas from.

Paragons have one overpowered build - the imbagon. Their other builds are mostly tier 3 or 4 (where in my completely arbitrary system, tier 1 is the game-breaking stuff, and tier 2 is the stuff that's good but not powerful enough to become infamous). When was the last time you saw a Paragon hero used except as support for an imbagon? Most of their builds that were viable to use in PvE got nerfed down due to PvP.

Assassins are a little better off, but still only have one tier 1 build (permasin). DB/MS and Palm Strike builds (in a PvE context) both sit around tier 2.

Back then · May 13, 2009, 02:33 AM // 02:33

So... skill update on thursday. I wonder if we'll see more skills split, or if they'll just ignore it and just nerf/buff across the board...

Sniper22 · May 13, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

Oh boy do you not know how wrong you are. PvE is easy because of the constant nerfs to most skills since the game started, all because of how they are used in PvP.

I fervently hope and pray that when GW2, comes around EACH and EVERY skill has a PvE and PvP version. That way when the PvP crowd calls for a nerf it doesn't affect the PvE'rs in any way shape or form.

I really wish people would realise that PvP is NOT PvE and vice-versa, and asking all the game players to stick to just the one set of skills is an exercise in stupidity.

Ahahahah thanks I needed a laugh. I've been playing this game for 4 years and before pve only skills, pve was at least a little bit more difficult. PvE split skills are completely pointless IMO and will only make pve easier than it is already. I guess it makes discordway easier to cut through HM like a hot knife through butter. BTW are you suggesting that changing all pve skills to their original function will make pve harder... lol? I think the only challenge to pve is when aaxtes hit you for 100+ dmg without attack skills.

Ya pve must be so easy cause mobs suck with their nerfed skills. All those turrent rangers mobs with fail must be terrible now just like back breaker sin mobs. Necros mobs now have to cast rend for 2 secs.... thats totally gonna mess their spike up. Oh you cant forget when they raised the putrid recharge time to 5 secs... no more blowing up all the corpses at once for enemy mobs... Oh and don't even get me started on how they messed up that sin boss's hidden caltrops. He won't be able to snare Koss properly now. Thank you anet for nerfing those mobs! (End of sarcasm)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimso

[Chain Lightning]

It's nerf way back due to Air spike teams made Mursaat elementalists a lot weaker than they were before the nerf.

=)

R.Shayne · May 13, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50

What about Ranger pets. Pets no longer leave corpse, could this even be split or would it take creating another type of pet for PvE.

PvP if you pet dies you suffer no affect in PvE your pet dies your skills are disabled.

The funny part is we have a whole map dedicated to pets yet I can not think of a single pet build that is used with any frequency.

Nightow · May 13, 2009, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back then

So... skill update on thursday. I wonder if we'll see more skills split, or if they'll just ignore it and just nerf/buff across the board...

Yes, I pray to Grenth every day that the next skill update may include a revert to the skills used in the old Rit Lord build. Namely [Shelter], [Union], and [Displacement].

Sadly though, I half expect rits to just get hit with the nerf bat again. ([Protective Was Kaolai])

Krill · May 13, 2009, 04:15 AM // 04:15

From what I understand PvP skill splits have been used as a measure of last resort to balance skills when a nerf would enrage PvE players. There has been a disappointing lack of enthusiasm to rebalance a large number of skills that were nerfed before the split took effect (making them useless for PvE) and PvP only skills that were nerfed for reasons that are no longer applicable.

Bryant Again · May 13, 2009, 10:01 AM // 10:01

The PvE/P skill seperation is a very interesting integration that permits the ability to properly add depth to both sides of the game. It's not difficult to see the amount of skills and mechanics that see primary use in one side of the game than the other.

But as is, the PvE/P skill separation has largely just been a method to quiet down the portion of the playerbase that doesn't want to see "their" game touched. Both sides of the argument have just as much merit as the other: on one side it sucks to be enjoying a certain playstyle to the game and then see it less viable due to a change in a part of the game you rarely participate in, but on the other it's a bit naive to come into an online game expecting nothing to change.

Hopefully in GW2 they'll have a bit more time and resources to fully take advantage of such a feature. But that honestly depends on how much ANet wants to seperate how each side of the game is played. If the gap is big, I do hope to see the skill split since it can become a huge pain in the ass having to balance one class around multiple gaming formats.

bitchbar player · May 13, 2009, 11:06 AM // 11:06

The reason why they don't buff every skill for pve is that it are not two seperate games. You don't want something who wants to try some pvp after pve'ing having to learn all skills again.

Bug John · May 13, 2009, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Assassins are a little better off, but still only have one tier 1 build (permasin). DB/MS and Palm Strike builds (in a PvE context) both sit around tier 2.

Crit scythe or crit spear assassins are totally imba with pve skills, especially using RoJway (with scythe) or Discordway (with spear) heroes.

Any class can be imba with pve skills, that's right, but critical strikes allow sins to reach unbelievable dps.

Meridon · May 13, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

What I'm angry about is that even after the PvE/PvP skill split, Anet continues to nerf certain skills for both PvE and PvP, while their intention is only to get rid of certain builds in PvP.

The prime example here is Flail. It got nerfed a month or two ago because of the Burning Arrow R/W Build in GvG. Anet decided a Ranger shouldn't have such an easy maintain and free IAS in GvG and thus they nerfed it.

That just screwed my PvE Ranger over. I loved playing R/W with Barrage and Flail. Why does PvE still have to suffer under PvP nerfs with the PvE/PvP split already in place? It's kist rediculous.

Sure, you could say Barrage + Flail is OP in PvE, but then they should have first nerfed the hell out of nerf Drunken Master + Lightning Reflexes, also a permanent IAS and permanent 75% block that doesnt requires going Warrior as Secondary.

Since that nerf, I hardly play Ranger in PvE anymore.

Targren · May 13, 2009, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Be careful what you ask for. Monsters in PvE use those skills too.

/has nightmares about HM Afflicted Monks with ROJ...

glacialphoenix · May 13, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

/has nightmares about HM Afflicted Monks with ROJ...

I have extremely fond memories of shrieking "GET THE HEROES OUT OF THE BEAM OF LIGHT". Not.

But, yeah. Anything that affects the PVE players, affects the monsters too. Frankly, no matter what you do, someone will complain. Buff Skill X? People will complain that whatever monster with Skill X is now significantly harder to kill. Monster monks with WoH were a lot easier to kill when WoH wasn't self-targetable.

So, you know... you can do more with the PvE version of skills, sure, but once players find out what that means when they try to kill a certain mob, the whole mess will be started again.

bhavv · May 13, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

I was recently farming putrid cysts on NM for free armor, and devona and talon kept on getting PWNED by RoJ, while the rit healers were much too slow to heal them.

WoH self targeting buff also made FoW really difficult to 600 / smite duo.

Watch yourself nerf killed my trust in Anet, but at least they fixed that one now.

Life Sheath rework killed the prot henchmen in Factions, OMG they have 3 condition removals and zero hex removal, ummm ...

And they still cast rebirth mid battle.

Oh well, more motivation to complete the game on my second account for 6 heroes in HM.